血色诱惑
——刘骐鸣访谈录
艺术家：刘骐鸣（以下简称：刘）
记 者：曹晓光《世界艺术》杂志（以下简称：曹）
记：刘老师，看您近年来的作品，很有意思！作品很中国化，很诗意，有一层浓郁的忧郁色彩！这和今天所流行的当代艺术很不一样！
刘：是吗？很诗意就是说很抒情了！所谓“当代艺术”是拒绝抒情的，呵呵！
记：感觉刘老师您的作品主要还是针对集权主义的反思与批判上？
刘：批判，我哪敢啊！面对强权话语，我只不过是把他们所做的事，用我自己的方式把它们呈现出来，给大家看看而已！
记：刘老师您的作品不直接描述事件，却往往使观众获得身临其境的真实感！给人更多的回味，很幽默，却不调侃。可不可以谈谈您的创作思路是怎样形成的呢？
刘：幽默谈不上，但的确调侃不起来。在创作上，我喜欢以一种貌似轻松的、远距离的、静观的方式来记录，而不去直接描绘当下的生活。我认为也许当生活其中时，我们总是迟钝或模糊的。所以我总是会在一段时间后，才用一种记忆的方式去触摸曾经的生活。
记：那可以说您是一个历史题材的艺术家吗？就象《革命样板》《我的1989》等作品，从作品名字上看很有历史题材的痕迹。
刘：我不喜欢简单的去追述或者描写历史，因为现实本来就是历史多样化的镜像而已，过去与未来其实都在今天简单而机械地镜像重叠着！我选择具有特定时代标签的人物符号或者作品名称，其意义只有一个，通过借用其具有象征与隐寓特质的浓缩信息，传达我对当下现实生活的理解与判断！
记：您认为影响艺术创作的最大因素是什么？
刘：要说影响呀，还是那句老话——“艺术源于生活”。只是自所谓文明史以来，影响生活最大的却是政治！它渗透在我们生活的方方面面，就象一只无形的手，控制着我们每一个人的思想和行为！就如我们早已习惯了我们的生活，不觉不察，无以逃避！虽然它总是通过我们生活中一些具体的事发生着，但在我们从小到大的成长过程中都早已习惯性接受甚至认同了。政治就是这样，就总是通过洗脑的方法，以达到让你认同并接受符合他们利益的价值观的目的。
所以，“艺术源于生活”，艺术要反映生活，就不应该只是简单地去描绘我们看到的东西，而更需要进一步去挖掘和表现看不到的那些控制我们生活的无形东西，我想这也就是我们平常所说的关于“艺术的深度”的意思吧！
记：我曾经看到您在“艺术中国——刘骐鸣访谈录”中说“特定的政治社会，使我的生活感到一种无形的压迫感！在作品中，龙卷风、蘑菇云其肆虐、破坏的暴力性与天安门构成了某种特殊时代的内在的和谐性。”我现在能理解这个意思了！您还说“在作品中，人——仅仅是个标本！”也是这个意思吗？
刘：个人都是很渺小的！面对命运，个体总是被那些无形的强势东西着控制。当然，这些无形的东西还包括宗教、文化等。生活中我们往往也就仅是“命悬一线”， 生命和命运就是在一根线上的舞蹈。
记：“一根线上的舞蹈”着个比喻很有意思！那请问您画面中总是出现红旗、红领巾、红内裤这些形象，它们又有着怎样的内在联系呢？
刘：都是一块布嘛！都是崇高与激情背后的碎片。崇高与激情都是要用鲜血作代价的，在人类的历史中慨莫例外，鲜血，既是生命的象征，又是暴力与血腥的象征。血色，诱惑着我们每一根神经！
记：呵呵！如果我有机会您的策划展览，我一定选用“一根线上的舞蹈”或者“血色诱惑”来作为展览的主题！
刘：好呀！也许会有这么一天的。呵呵！
记：我相信，一般观众从您作品中都能感知得到，您是一个很有社会责任感的艺术家！您认为社会责任感对一个艺术家重要吗？
刘：不是重不重要的问题，我认为艺术家首先在社会中应该是个特立独行的知识份子！社会责任感始终是衡量一个艺术家的基本标尺。
“怎样做艺术”是一个方法问题， “做怎样的艺术”是一个态度问题。“社会责任感”是判断一个从事艺术的工作者是否是艺术家的基本原则。
记：这个观点我认可。可以谈谈有那些典型的事情影响您创作吗？
刘：很多，我可以简单的给你说有几件事，这些事其直接经验影响着我对生活的判断和对艺术的选择。比如说我在初中毕业时，因反抗在中考中“校方舞弊”的行为而被开除团籍。89年6月，入伍还不到半年的哥叫我不要参与集会，会有危险。因为他就在现场。
记：这些都是在读大学以前的事？那上大学以后有没有呢？
刘：上大学时很幸运，遇到张晓刚、叶帅（叶永青）和王林等一批很优秀的老师，他们对我的影响和帮助很大。当时他们的活动也特别多，如“中国经验展”“艺术文献展”
等。川美的教学也比较开放，喜欢艺术的同学总是不分系别和年级界限，经常会聚在一起讨论艺术！这样才有了我1995年毕业时，在四川美术学院举办我的第一个展——“（出）氡氚（入）”油画展。
当时，面对现实与理想，东方与西方，传统与现代等交织的文化图景与矛盾，使我感到异常混乱与迷茫。我试图用“出入”被禁锢的尴尬状态来传达我在美术学院学习这段时间的人生感悟与艺术思考。
记：您在高原藏族地区工作那几年对您今天的创作有什么影响呢？
刘：1995年我毕业时，来到位于四川省藏族羌族自治州的汶川县城的阿坝师专艺术系任教。梦想在这有着浓厚藏传佛教的藏羌高原地区寻找到自己的灵魂家园。但我很快发现我错了！高原的天总是蓝的，但空气却是让人窒息的。高原从来就不是文学家和政治需要而讴歌动人景观。
记：您没有想办法离开？
刘：想了，当时，我还给刚到北京工作的师兄俸正杰写信，想到北京去做职业画家。但很快得知圆明园的艺术家被驱赶的消息！于是我就在成都建立了自己的工作室，这样经常奔波于阿坝高原与成都平原都市之间。
记：那一定很累吧！
刘：累，也很愉快！我在那里组织了一些活动，也得到王林老师的支持，记得当时我们搞“高原红”艺术工作室的时候，王老师还来信鼓励我要“身在边陲，当心存天下”！这句话至今还不断的勉励着我呢！
记：那您后来是怎样离开的呢？
刘：面对尴尬的宗教文化缺失与体制桎梏的无奈，我经历了五年的调离申请，但最终失败。最后以“三不要”离开阿坝师专。
记：“三不要”是什么意思？
刘：就是脱离国家体制。“三”就是中国体制中人口管理的三个枷锁，即“档案关系、工资关系、户籍关系”。
记：回到了成都？
刘：没有，回了老家绵阳市。朋友鼓动与其一起创建民办大学（四川教育学院绵阳科技城分院）。梦想通过私立办学，拯救中国教育。最后发现只是一个骗局。离开高原回到都市的一两年中，始终很惶恐，总觉得这不是自己的生活，虽然每天游走其间，却无法适应，自己始终只是一个局外人。生活像水面落叶般漂浮着。
记：就是后来我们看到您的《漂浮》系列作品的感觉！02年您又到西南科技大学艺术学院任教了？
刘：是的，还做了主任。
记：“三无”身份也还能再进入体制中学校？
刘：是的，这就是中国特色！一切都是领导说了算呀！
记：既然做了主任，应该可以实现的您教育理想了吧？
刘：这是更糟糕的事！这几年我几乎疯掉了。现实的无奈与违心地谎言施教，每天机器般的条例教学，刻板地教学评估，格式化地论文，绝不允许什么创造力。一切都只要数据化、标准化！这些所谓地大学艺术教育正象一个婊子的牌坊。这是一种彻底虚假的生活。这个阶段我选择了绚丽而抽象的色调来粉饰与逃避自己的生活，结果又是一次失败。逃避永远解决不了问题！
记：看来你的确不适应在体制中生活啊！所以06年来到北京。
刘：是的，做自己喜欢的事还能养活一家人，是很幸运的事。
记：现在应该是自由了！
刘：自由，仅仅针对身体的束缚而言吗？
记：怎么讲呢？
刘：比如去年发生在我家的一件事，2007年4月10日，我母亲在我父亲的陪同下到医院医治哮喘病，可在医院转院途中，因救护车上的氧气瓶是空氧气瓶，而使我母亲窒息致死。在事实证据都摆在面前的情况下，医院却武断地否认事实！后来在大量事实证据和众多朋友包括媒体参与的帮助下，最后医院才不得不承认一切事实。经过调解后，按中国法律中对农村户口的赔偿标准（城市户口和农村户口赔偿标准是不同的），给了四万五千元人民币的基本赔偿后，就此结束。不仅没有基本的忏悔精神，至今仍然拒绝向我们家属做最基本的人道主义式的赔礼道歉！
可笑的是，医院方真正地责任人没有一个人因此受到任何程度地惩戒。反而是当时救护车上的护士被医院开除了！原因是作为医院方的人，由于她在救护车上曾两次提醒医生氧气瓶无氧的事实，最终成为该案件的关键证人和证词之一·····
记：这很遗憾！在中国这样的事也太多了！
刘：是的，很无奈！这就是我必须面对的生活和命运。所以我也将这个展览献给我的母亲。
记：经历这么多，但您的作品并不消极，虽然伤感些，反而让我们感受到了一种希望与强烈的生命力！
刘：是呀，生命的价值与意义高于一切！
记：您还会涉猎其他的创作方式吗？
刘：会的，我目前正准备做些图片与影像。任何艺术形式都有他不可替代的优点和自身的局限性，我很有兴趣去尝试一些新东西！
记：好呀！我们非常期待看到您的新作品！谢谢您刘老师。
2008年4月16日
——摘自《世界艺术》杂志（当代卷）2008年4期
Blood Temptation
——An Interview with Liu Qiming
Artist:Liu Qiming(here we use:LIU)
Reporter: Cao Xiaoguang "World
Art" magazine (here we use:CAO)
CAO：Mr. Liu, your artworks in recent years are very
interesting, with Chinese style, very poetic, deep melancholy. This is quite different from current popular
contemporary art.
LIU：Yes? That is to say very lyric.The so-called
"contemporary art" is to reject the lyric.(smiling)
CAO：I feel your artworks mainly focus on reflection and
criticism on centralization. Is that right?
LIU：Criticism? How can I dare? Facing power discourse, what I
do is only showing people to see what they have done with my own way.
CAO：Mr.Liu, your artworks don’t directly describe the
incidents, but they tend to make the audience get the realistic feel, giving
more memorable, quite humorous, but no prank. Can you talk about something on
how does your creating thinking form?
LIU：It’s not that humorous,but indeed without prank. While creating, I’d like to record
it with a seemingly easy, long-distanced, observing way,rather than directly
describing the current life. I think perhaps when we are in life itself,we are
always slow or vague. Therefore, I will always touch the lives with a memorable
way in a period of time.
CAO：Can I say that you are an artist on historical themes? Just like "revolutionary
model," "My 1989" and other artworks, from the names they are
indeed have the trace of historical
themes.
LIU：I do not like to simply trace back or describe history,
because reality itself is only a mirror for the diversity of history, and past
and future are in fact repeat and duplicate simple and mechanical in today.The
only significance of my choosing figure symbol or artworks’ name labelled with
a specific era is to convey my understanding and judgement to the current life
through by using the condensed information of its symbolic nature and the
implicit meaning.
CAO：What do you think is the main impact on your art
creating?
LIU： About impact, it owes to that old saying "art
originates from life." While,since the so-called civilization, the
greatest impact on life is politics. It infiltrates in every aspect of our lives,
like an invisible hand to control our thinking and behavior. As we have become
accustomed to our lives, unknowingly be aware of, not escaping. Although it
always happens in our lives in terms of some specific things,in the process of
our growth we become used to accepting and recognizing them. It always make you agree with their interests and
accept their values by brainwashing,such is politics.
Therefore, the "art originates from
life," and art should reflect life, in this way we should not simply describe
what we see, but digging out and perform those controlling our life,and I think
the later is the art depth people talk about.
CAO： I've learnt that in the "art
of China - An Interview with Liu Qiming," you said "specific
political society gave my life an invisible pressure. In the artworks,
tornadoes, mushroom cloud with rampant destruction and violence And Tiananmen Square constitute a
particular internal harmonyfor an era. "Now I can understand the meaning.You
also said that "in the arttworks, people are only samples." Does this
mean the same thing?
LIU：Individuals are not that significant! Faced with
fate,individuals are always controlled by the strength of the invisible things.
Of course, these intangible things also include religion, and culture. Our
living in it is just like being suspended by a thread, and life and destiny are
dancing in that thread or line.
CAO： "Dancing on a
thread" seems interesting. In your
painting red flag, red scarf, and the red underwear are the common images, do
they have anything to do with each other?
LIU：Each of them is a piece of cloth, the debris behind
loftiness and passion. loftiness and passion are cost of blood, and in the
history of human history . There is no
exception.Blood, is the symbol of life, is also the symbol of violence and bloodshed.blood temptates our
every nerve.
CAO：(smiling) If I had the opportunity to plan your
exhibition, I would certainly choose "dancing in a thread" or
"blood temptations" as the theme.
LIU：That’s okey. Perhaps you could.(smiling)
CAO：I
believe that the audience can perceive from your artworks that you are an
artist wtih great sense of social responsibility. In your opinion, is social
responsibility Important to an artist?
LIU：Being important or not is not the problem,but in think
first of all in society an artist should be an independent intellectual. Social
responsibility is always a basic yardstick to measure an artist. "How to
create art" is a methodological issue, while "what to create" is
an attitude problem. " Social responsibility" is a bacic principle to
judge people engaged in arts an artist or not.
CAO：I agree with you
on this point. Is there anything typical affecting your creating? Can you talk
about it?
LIU：There are many,and
I can simply say something to you, which directly affect my judgement to life
and my chocice on art. For example, in my junior high school graduation,
because of resistance in the examinations, i was expelled from the membership of Chinese Communist
Youth League. And,In June in 1989,my elder brother joining the army less
than half a year told me not to take part in assembly or meetings, or else it
would be dangerous. Because he was on
the spot.
CAO：All these happened
before you go to college. Is there anything related after you go to
college?
LIU：In college I am
fortunate to encounter a number of very good teachers like Zhang Xiaogang, Ye
Shuai (Ye Yongqing) and Wang Lin and so on,and they had great impact on me and
gave me great help. At that time they had many activities, such as "China's experience" exhibition "Art literature
Exhibition." Teaching in Sichuan Fine Arts
Institute is also more open,
students who love art often gathered together to
discuss art regardless of grade boundaries. So I held the first exhibition
"(out) radon tritium (in)" Oil
Painting Exhibition on my graduation in 1995
in the Sichuan Academy of Fine Arts. At that time, facing
reality and ideals, East and West, traditional and modern culture, I was in
chaos and confusion. I tried to use the detained awkward state "out and
in" to convey my sentiment and art thinking during that peiiod of time in Academy of Fine Arts Institute.
CAO：You worked on the
plateau area in those years, what impact does it have on your current creating?
LIU：When
graduating in 1995, I came to the Aba City College of the Arts to be a teacher
in Tibetan and Qiang Autonomous Prefecture in Sichuan Province in Wenchuan
County in the dream of searching for my
soul home in that strong Tibetan
Buddhism Cangqiang highland areas. But soon I found I was wrong.The sky in
plateau is always blue, but the air is stifling.Plateau isn’t a charming
landscape for writer and political needs to eulogize.
CAO：Did you want to leave there?
LIU：I
did think of leaving. At that time, I wrote to my school mate Feng Zhengjie who
just arrived in Beijing to express my thought of being professional artist in
Bejing. But later I learnt the news that artists in Yuanmingyuan were expelled.Then,I established my own studio in Chengdu, often shuttling
between Aba plateau and Chengdu Plain.
CAO：That must be very tired!
LIU：Yes,Tired,but
happy as well. I organized some activities there,and also gained the support
from Wang Lin.I remember when we engaged
in "Gao Yuanhong" art studio, Wang Lin encouraged me in his letter
"though in the periphery, man should focus on the world!" The
sentence is still constantly encourages me.
CAO：why did you leave there later?
LIU：Faced
with the embarrassing lack of religious culture and shackles of frustration
with the system, I experienced five years of application for leaving, but ultimately failed. At last, I left Aba
Teachers College with the results ”three-no”.
CAO：What does ”three-no” mean?
LIU：That
Is out of the state system. "Three" is China's system of population
management of the three chains, "the archives, wages, household
registration relations."
CAO：You returned to Chengdu?
LIU：No, I came back to my home in Mianyang City. My friends
encouraged me to set up a private university with him(Mianyang Science and
Technology City, branch of Sichuan Institute of Education )in the dream of
saving China's education through private schools. Finally i found it was just a
hoax. leaving the plateau back to the city, Those years I was often in panic,
feeling it wasn’t my life.Although the
daily life continued,I felt hard to adjust to it,being an outsider. Life was like fallen leaves floating in the water.
CAO：It’s what we feel when see your artworks” floating”
series. In2002, you went to Institute of the Arts in Southwest University of
Science and Technology to teach?
LIU：Yes, I became director there.
CAO：With "three-no" identity,could you enter the
school system?
LIU：Yes, this is unique in China. The leader had the final say.
CAO：Since you had been director, you should achieve your education ideal?right?
LIU：That was even worse.
In those years, I almost turned mad. Being at loss to the reality and teaching something mechanically against my
wil,starch evaluation and machine-made paper,no pomission to creativity. All
was for data and standardization.The
so-called art education in the University was just like a torii of a whore.
That was a completely false life. That stage I chose bright and abstract colors to whitewash and
escape my life, but,it was a failure again. Escaping will never solve the
problem.
CAO：It seems that you’re really not suited to living in
institution. So in 2006 you came to Beijing.right?
LIU：Yes, it’s lucky that I can do the things I like,besides,I
can support my family.
CAO：Now,you should feel free.
LIU：Free? Just in terms
of physical restraints?
CAO：Why do you say so?
LIU：For example, I told
you a story which happened in my family last year. On April 10, 2007, my father
escorted my mother to hospital for treatment of asthma, but, when they
transferred in the hospital,the oxygen bottle was empty in the ambulance which
caused my mother’s dying from suffocation. All the evidence were on the
table,but the hospital arbitrarily denied the facts. Later, in a host of facts
and evidence, with the help of many friends including the media,the hospital
had to admit all the facts. After mediation, according to Chinese law the
compensation standards (the compensation standard for urban and rural accounts
is different) in rural areas accounts, the hospital gave basic compensation
45,000 yuan, and this issue concluded. The hospital didn’t have the basic
spirit of repentance, till now they still refused to give our familiy a basic humanitarian apology!
Ironically, people in charge of the case in
the hospital weren’t be punished at all. On the contrary, the nurses in the
ambulance were expelled from the
hospital, for the fact she had reminded the doctor the oxygen bottles anaerobic
in the ambulance, ultimately she become the key witness in the case and the one
testimony…
CAO：This is
quite regrettable! In China such a thing is too many.
LIU：Yes, very helpless.
This is what I must face the life and destiny. Therefore, I will also present
the exhibition to my mother.
CAO：You experienced so much, but your artworks
aren’t negative. A little sad in them,we feel a sense of hope and strong
vitality.
LIU：Yes, the value and significance of life are above all.
CAO：Will you dabble
in other ways in your creating?
LIU：Yes, I prepare to do
some photos and videos. Any art form has
its irreplaceable advantages and
limitations of their own as well, I am very interested to try some new things.
CAO：Great. We
look forward to seeing your new artworks! Thank you Mr.Liu.
April 16th, 2008
-- Excerpt from "World Art" magazine
(contemporary volumes) 2008.4